soul_ooc | MODPOST 1/2

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*mod post

MODPOST 1/2

Attention, Soul Campaign!

We’re opening reservations in a little over a week, and the mods would like to make some announcements regarding changes being made to the application and reservation process. These changes have been in planning for a long time, and is one of the reasons why we went for the break.

Reserves Page and Application Cut Off
The reserves page will open on November 1, 2011 as planned. The application cycle will be from December 16 - 23, 2011. Cut-off for next cycle will be December 15, 2011, 11:59pm EST.

Changes to the application form
We made some changes to the application form, which you can see here. The sections remain the same, but the text explaining these changes have been revised to make them clearer and more streamlined. We’ve included a secondary reference page linked in the application, which includes guidelines that will hopefully make the application easier for players to fill and the application cycle/process much faster than what we’ve been doing before.

We changed the weapon section so that weapons will only have one general ability. There will be a separate post to detail how this will affect current weapons (but don’t panic, we’re not going to make you change yours if you don’t want to).

Last, a summary of the events in the game since its beginning up til the Europe event has been posted in this page.

New revision process for the applications
Starting the next cycle, we will no longer entertain revisions for the Character Information section of the application. This section includes the character’s history, personality, abilities, and weaknesses. We feel that players who know their characters well should be able to write their applications in a manner that makes this section understandable to the application team. Any application whose character information section the application team finds lacking will immediately be rejected.

The other sections (SC-only section, meister, weapon, soul description, samples) will go through the usual revision process if necessary, since they are all sections unique to Soul Campaign.

Beta-reading system
However, since we will no longer be allowing revisions for the character information during the application cycle, we will be offsetting this with a beta-reading system to help players make sure that their applications pass the standards of the game.

How will this work? In the reserves page, the applicants commenting on it will have the option of asking for a beta-reader from SC’s pool of current players. You can volunteer to beta-read theirs and help them with their applications by replying to their reserve comment.

We’d also like to minimize the risk of applicants asking for a beta-reader and not getting any -- to do this, the mods will be collecting names of people willing to be included in a pool of beta-readers every cycle, and we will assign them to a lonely applicant.

If you’d like to volunteer, please reply here, and indicate any preferences (or non-preferences, for that matter!) on series or canon that you have. We appreciate it! App team members may also volunteer, but this doesn’t guarantee that the app will pass.

Test drive meme
We will also test something for next cycle. We will put up a Test Drive Meme in Soul Skirmish, to be linked to the reserves page. This will give the prospective applicants and the current players space to tag each other before the application cycle, to give the applicants a taste of the game before they come in.

The meme will include several scenarios that the characters can play out, depending on their choice. Some will be serious, while some will be more light-hearted. Soul Campaign is a plot-heavy game that depends on consistent relations and interactions between characters, as well as emphasis on world news and events; we’d like the applicants to be more aware of this as they app into the game.

Please note that threads in this meme will not be accepted for Activity Check. Sorry. :c

Whew!
So that’s it for changes! Please note that the new revision process, beta-reading system, and test drive meme are all still under testing for now, and we may adjust them depending on how December pans out. We appreciate your patience!

The second mod post will be up soon after this, so make sure to check it out, especially if you have weapon characters.

For questions about this post (and its links), you can ask here or email us at soulcampaign@gmail.com. (Don't worry if some questions take a while to answer, a couple of the mods are going on a short vacation for a couple of days. Thank you for your patience!)

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Actually, in context, it isn't even close to "they will do whatever we ask." I'll admit that, yes, Soul Campaign and nearly every other roleplaying game out there are members-only establishments. In our case, to become a member, you must fill out an application form that will be judged by a panel of current members. Just like in all of these groups, you either pass the application, fail the application, or are deferred for any number of reasons. There is no part of the process that strays away from the basic idea of 'submit an application.'

I do understand what you are trying to say, but at the same time, the context of the situation still makes the comparison a sensational one. This is a process that is very much about quality... once you decide to go through the process. Before you submit that app, whether you feel scared or intimidated or determined or absolutely calm is entirely up to you and does not affect the requirements nor the process. Calm, scared, or determined, nothing will happen until you write that app and give it in.

So, again, where is the hazing?

"Furthermore, I'd also like to believe that if a player really wanted to come in and join us, they'll make the effort to, no matter how "intimidating" it looks. "

" Maybe the whole lack of revisions thing might seem a little intimidating, but I don't think that should stop anyone who really wants to play here. "

Quotes like these [will all respect and apologies to the original writers as I am not attempting to single them out] give off the impression that it is the determination of the applicant to REALLY want to join THIS game over all others that is what's important, not the content of your app, which is what my reply was commenting on. When there is a very long period between apps, the fact that any small misunderstanding in a personality section means that you could be rejected without any chance to clarify or explain makes it into a test of determination.

While I understand that yes, the word hazing is a strong one, please also note that no where did I say hazing was what was happening or intended. If I had realized people were going to get hung up on the word, I would not have used it, but I really couldn't think of any other term off hand for the belief that people who want to get into a club should do anything, no matter how intimidating or scary, to get in. Hazing is something that to those who support it is seen as a test of determination. In that mindset, it's a gauntlet you run through to prove that you are good enough and driven enough to withstand anything to get into that group. Swap it for "initiation" instead if that works better. I can't edit it to clarify that at this stage because replies have been made.

the fact that any small misunderstanding in a personality section means that you could be rejected without any chance to clarify or explain makes it into a test of determination

Again, please don't assume that the app team and the mods are out to reject apps or are out to look for something wrong in them. In fact, we have about a 95% acceptance rate for all of our applications, so we were more than lenient with previous apps. What the new process does is to streamline acceptances for the benefit of both the player and the app team, and to lessen the frequency of minor revisions in this section. It makes the process less painful on this section, which all players are expected to know about their characters.

It's a matter of having to guess just how exactly a group of people you don't know will expect you to write a character section.

The post already mentions that samples are forthcoming. However, it's not too much of a leap to assume that more plot-heavy games expect the same things from their appers' personality sections -- motivations, focus, strengths, weaknesses and quirks -- these are all standard across the board. We're not asking for a nobel prize essay on your character -- we just want to know that you know the character well enough to play them in a plot-heavy setting. Again, as Kelly has said, the app isn't any harder; it might even be easier if we look at the anticipated decrease in app team clarifications and minor revisions (which is what 90% of them are).

I'm really glad to see that acceptance is so high! But there's really no way for people looking at the app to know what unless you tell them. The app may not BE harder, but it looks it and sounds it. There really needs to be these assurances somewhere attached to the app itself.

How does the app form look harder, exactly? Is it only because of the no revisions clause? We'd appreciate it if you could elaborate on this, because part of the change was to make the app form less redundant, have less tl;dr instructions, and to have less rules imposed on it.

The no revisions clause is all of it, to be honest. Revisions are always part of apping and allow for small mistakes to be corrected and misunderstands to be worked out. Seeing that there is no chance to fix those mistakes, especially with the long window before you can app again is a huge deterrence and adds an addition level of anxiety and stress to the process. Even if you say here that small things will be over looked, in most app processes they aren't. Unless the person looking at that app has the assurance that the usual and frequent revision calls won't cause them to be rejected, they're going to assume it's business as usual, just with no chance to tailor what they've written to expectations they weren't aware of because there's always something that gets missed or misunderstood.

And personally, I'd rather have the longer instructions as a general thing. I'm hoping the guidelines you guys are putting together will replace them because it can be very hard sometimes to figure out how sections are to be filled out, like how the strengths and weakness sections always are very hard since half the time they're redundant and tend to be just lists (thank you for making that optional, BTW. BIG improvement!) This goes double for the no 2nd chance addition.

Aaah, I get what you're saying now. I understand your point about making the change in the review process clearer in the app, and we'll try to make changes in the app to reflect this concern.

The strengths and weaknesses sections were already just lists before this change. That part did not change at all, except for the guideline we added here to make the instructions clearer.

But there is no initiation, either, only application. Those two concepts are worlds apart. Initiation requires, as you say, a test of courage or determination or something. An application requires only two things: that you fill out the application and that you submit it on time. That's what this is--an application. You can't play unless you give it in, much like how you can't chew the food on your plate until you put it in your mouth. It's process. I can see the point you are trying to make, and I do understand, but the connection just isn't there to be made. Determined or not, your application is looked at the same as all the other applications. That's what I want to make clear--even if other people have their opinions on the matter, that doesn't change that this is very simply an application like any other.

I guess I'm just not doing a good job explaining what I mean. I'm not saying the app is that. I'm saying the belief that is being batted around that if these changes will keep someone from apping it means they just didn't want it hard enough. The implication that only people who REALLY want to be in this game and JUST this game and who aren't going to be put off by now matter how anything on the application looks are the only ones that are wanted. That implication that the app looking harder and harder is a good thing because of that and that only people who REALLY wanted to be here are the ones who stay and people who would look at that barrier and say it wasn't worth the stress wouldn't have been good players anyway and that those are the people who idle out so it's good that they should be chased away before they even have a chance to be part of the game.

That's what I'm frustrated at. Really sorry I keep being confusing about it.

No, it's okay. Communication is one of those very human things to get cross-wired about.

I agree with you--the logic behind the idea that a scary application will only attract people who will end up staying once the process is completed is flawed. I don't believe it will deter or promote committed players either way, as there are too many factors involved to really predict what creates a player that eventually ends up staying in SC. You are correct in finding issue with that faulty assumption.

Especially when it's text only. @_@ It's like.. what, 80% of all communication is lost when it's just text?

The thing is, I am already hearing from people that it is discouraging. There are now at least two people who were seriously considering the game who have now said that they won't be. While I have no way of knowing if these people would have stuck it out long haul, I know them to be very dedictated in the games they are currenly in. It really concerns me as new characters and players are a very critical part of the momentum that keeps an RP going and I really hope that something like this that has the very real potential to damage that momentum can be adjusted so that it won't.

Are they aware that it is just the one portion of the application that is not up for revision? I've seen more problems arise from the other sections because of how strange they are to new players, but those sections all allow for revisions. In any event, I'll be working on the clarifying the guidelines for that section so that everybody--current players, new players, and application readers, will know what is expected. When we're all on the same page, as is intended, this will all become much less scary.

Honestly, any section being a one chance only is pretty terrifying, not gonna lie. As said in another section here, I had one app come up for revisions in another game because the mod team felt something I had included wasn't true, and I just gave them the canon evidence for it and it was fine. If there had been a no revisions policy there, he'd never have gotten in. Unless the app team are masters of all canons, which they can't possibly be expected to be, there will almost always be something like that or similar that pops up.

Rejection is a crushing thing and pretty horrible to deal with when you really want to be a part of something. The chance that it could happen without any chance to fix something is enough to make people not want to deal with that possibility. Especially if you've had encounters with revision requests before! And with emailed/hidden apps, you're sailing blind to start with because you don't know how often revisions are asked for/rejections are handed out or what's often asked for to try and avoid those pitfalls before hand.

Mildly OT and might help clarify this discussion: You're grouping clarification and revisions together when this is usually not considered the same thing. If we wanted to clarify something, we'd ask the player about it, not reject them or ask for revisions. Clarifications are not changing in the new system and will still be there as part of normal operations.

Oh! This I did not know. Helpful to know.

But FM, even the dictionary says they are different words. >:(

Can that be mentioned somewhere in an app FAQ somewhere too? Since I didn't know that either.

Sure! I'm a little puzzled on why people have begun assuming that they are the same thing. The app team isn't an unfair group who would reject people based on because they can't understand an app, when a simple clarification that may not even necessitate change is an option.

Not every app team works the same way and previous experiences will always colour current ones, unfortunately.

Personally (and this is Yukeh, LJ login seems to have died between my going on a short vacation), I feel that it's rather unfair to be constantly judged or monitored based on the actions of the app teams of other games. I understand that this is unavoidable, but it does cause confusion when constant adjustments and contingent plans have to be made for things that we don't actually even do.

Yeah, I can understand that. But when people have little idea what things are really like it really is unavoidable because there's not much else that can be put in it's place. It is one of the downsides when the app process is utterly out of sight. All that can be really done is just try and make things transparent/explain things so people know how it works here.

For what it's worth, I do appreciate both mod and app teams putting up with the flailing over this and being willing to listen.

I'm glad someone does, haha.

I'm sure most do! There's just a lot of flailing and anxiety to get through.

And thanks for bearing with my awkward attempts to explain things. I know I'm not the best with words at times and am stubborn as all hell, so really, thanks. :)

(no subject)

socialbutterfly - 2011-10-26 17:08 (UTC) - Expand

True enough! We'll make sure to compile all of the input in this post and make adjustments as necessary/post clarifications for everyone, so thank you for speaking up.

And thank you for listening! As said, it's really appreciated!

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