soul_ooc | MODPOST 1/2

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*mod post

MODPOST 1/2

Attention, Soul Campaign!

We’re opening reservations in a little over a week, and the mods would like to make some announcements regarding changes being made to the application and reservation process. These changes have been in planning for a long time, and is one of the reasons why we went for the break.

Reserves Page and Application Cut Off
The reserves page will open on November 1, 2011 as planned. The application cycle will be from December 16 - 23, 2011. Cut-off for next cycle will be December 15, 2011, 11:59pm EST.

Changes to the application form
We made some changes to the application form, which you can see here. The sections remain the same, but the text explaining these changes have been revised to make them clearer and more streamlined. We’ve included a secondary reference page linked in the application, which includes guidelines that will hopefully make the application easier for players to fill and the application cycle/process much faster than what we’ve been doing before.

We changed the weapon section so that weapons will only have one general ability. There will be a separate post to detail how this will affect current weapons (but don’t panic, we’re not going to make you change yours if you don’t want to).

Last, a summary of the events in the game since its beginning up til the Europe event has been posted in this page.

New revision process for the applications
Starting the next cycle, we will no longer entertain revisions for the Character Information section of the application. This section includes the character’s history, personality, abilities, and weaknesses. We feel that players who know their characters well should be able to write their applications in a manner that makes this section understandable to the application team. Any application whose character information section the application team finds lacking will immediately be rejected.

The other sections (SC-only section, meister, weapon, soul description, samples) will go through the usual revision process if necessary, since they are all sections unique to Soul Campaign.

Beta-reading system
However, since we will no longer be allowing revisions for the character information during the application cycle, we will be offsetting this with a beta-reading system to help players make sure that their applications pass the standards of the game.

How will this work? In the reserves page, the applicants commenting on it will have the option of asking for a beta-reader from SC’s pool of current players. You can volunteer to beta-read theirs and help them with their applications by replying to their reserve comment.

We’d also like to minimize the risk of applicants asking for a beta-reader and not getting any -- to do this, the mods will be collecting names of people willing to be included in a pool of beta-readers every cycle, and we will assign them to a lonely applicant.

If you’d like to volunteer, please reply here, and indicate any preferences (or non-preferences, for that matter!) on series or canon that you have. We appreciate it! App team members may also volunteer, but this doesn’t guarantee that the app will pass.

Test drive meme
We will also test something for next cycle. We will put up a Test Drive Meme in Soul Skirmish, to be linked to the reserves page. This will give the prospective applicants and the current players space to tag each other before the application cycle, to give the applicants a taste of the game before they come in.

The meme will include several scenarios that the characters can play out, depending on their choice. Some will be serious, while some will be more light-hearted. Soul Campaign is a plot-heavy game that depends on consistent relations and interactions between characters, as well as emphasis on world news and events; we’d like the applicants to be more aware of this as they app into the game.

Please note that threads in this meme will not be accepted for Activity Check. Sorry. :c

Whew!
So that’s it for changes! Please note that the new revision process, beta-reading system, and test drive meme are all still under testing for now, and we may adjust them depending on how December pans out. We appreciate your patience!

The second mod post will be up soon after this, so make sure to check it out, especially if you have weapon characters.

For questions about this post (and its links), you can ask here or email us at soulcampaign@gmail.com. (Don't worry if some questions take a while to answer, a couple of the mods are going on a short vacation for a couple of days. Thank you for your patience!)

Threaded | Top-Level Comments Only

This is a good idea, thank you! We'll note it down and see how we can do this in the app team.

Hello, thank you for the question!

Please remember that this process is still under testing. We're generally a considerate and, as Manda has said below, a forgiving team; we don't like to reject people upfront, either. But we do have to put our foot down somewhere, and enforcing a policy without being strict about it defeats the purpose of why it was put up in the first place. Part of the reason why everyone is being told in advance about this new policy is so they can take steps to make sure that they can meet it -- if you think that you are a good player but that your app tends to be less awesome, then by all means get a beta-reader or three. It's actually beneficial to get a beta-reader who doesn't know your canon.

However, we agree that there are a million and one reasons why an app gets a revision -- the primary intention of the new process is to get rid of unnecessary quibbling over minor revisions. If the content is solid and shows a good grasp of the character, even if the app is not so coherently written, we'd likely accept it.

We'll take the suggestion into consideration. However, the purpose of the new process is to judge the app as a whole based on its content and the player's grasp of the character without the usual minor quibbling inherent in the process in the past. If this core requirement is lacking, a revision to fix it will have to be a major one, and by the new app process, all major revisions will be an automatic reject.

Beta readers are a big help, but they are not able to predict or catch everything that an app team would. I always have a beta for my apps, sometimes as many as 5 people, but there are often still things that even the betas will miss. Betas are not magical. They are just other players who have already passed the review. If it were that easy, any app that was betaed wouldn't even need to be reviewed, which isn't true at all.

If the idea is just to get rid of minor revisions, wouldn't that more be a guideline change, rather than something that is this inflexible? I am not exaggerating when I say that I know of at least one person who has very firmly said that despite really wanting to join the game because she felt it was a very good fit for her character who would not app if this policy went as is, and she's been looking forward to apps opening the entire cycle. Something that harsh makes the entire process seem not worth the effort, especially when there is no indication that this is also coming with a change in how nit-picky apps in general tend to be gone over.

There really needs to be far more emphasis on the fact that this is a change of how things are reviewed, rather than yet another barrier, which is how it looks right now.

the fact that any small misunderstanding in a personality section means that you could be rejected without any chance to clarify or explain makes it into a test of determination

Again, please don't assume that the app team and the mods are out to reject apps or are out to look for something wrong in them. In fact, we have about a 95% acceptance rate for all of our applications, so we were more than lenient with previous apps. What the new process does is to streamline acceptances for the benefit of both the player and the app team, and to lessen the frequency of minor revisions in this section. It makes the process less painful on this section, which all players are expected to know about their characters.

It's a matter of having to guess just how exactly a group of people you don't know will expect you to write a character section.

The post already mentions that samples are forthcoming. However, it's not too much of a leap to assume that more plot-heavy games expect the same things from their appers' personality sections -- motivations, focus, strengths, weaknesses and quirks -- these are all standard across the board. We're not asking for a nobel prize essay on your character -- we just want to know that you know the character well enough to play them in a plot-heavy setting. Again, as Kelly has said, the app isn't any harder; it might even be easier if we look at the anticipated decrease in app team clarifications and minor revisions (which is what 90% of them are).

But there is no initiation, either, only application. Those two concepts are worlds apart. Initiation requires, as you say, a test of courage or determination or something. An application requires only two things: that you fill out the application and that you submit it on time. That's what this is--an application. You can't play unless you give it in, much like how you can't chew the food on your plate until you put it in your mouth. It's process. I can see the point you are trying to make, and I do understand, but the connection just isn't there to be made. Determined or not, your application is looked at the same as all the other applications. That's what I want to make clear--even if other people have their opinions on the matter, that doesn't change that this is very simply an application like any other.

I guess I'm just not doing a good job explaining what I mean. I'm not saying the app is that. I'm saying the belief that is being batted around that if these changes will keep someone from apping it means they just didn't want it hard enough. The implication that only people who REALLY want to be in this game and JUST this game and who aren't going to be put off by now matter how anything on the application looks are the only ones that are wanted. That implication that the app looking harder and harder is a good thing because of that and that only people who REALLY wanted to be here are the ones who stay and people who would look at that barrier and say it wasn't worth the stress wouldn't have been good players anyway and that those are the people who idle out so it's good that they should be chased away before they even have a chance to be part of the game.

That's what I'm frustrated at. Really sorry I keep being confusing about it.

Hi,

+ Shared guidelines were planned from the beginning and are forthcoming.
+ You are not limited to a single beta. You can request for others or ask for volunteer beta readers. Betas are also optional, so applicants are not required to ask for one; it is entirely possible to do the app on your own.
+ If you decide to apply at the last minute then that is your decision. Your application will be judged the same as any other.

Responsibility should not fall to the beta reader. The application for CFUD is based on how well an applicant appears to fit into the gaming culture there. The CFUD application is more intuitive, and there are many nuances to that process not at all present in the SC application. This alone guarantees a different beta experience and process. Beta-readers are meant as helpers for new players who are without contacts or friends in the game, but if you view having someone else discussing your application with you to be an obstacle or know the process well enough to do the app on your own, you are free to do without one.

+ No. Partial transformations are still on a case-by-case basis, but most weapons likely will have access to one. If you aren’t sure about a specific weapon, ask.
+ Justin and Giriko are Deathscythe-level Weapons, so are in possession of a fair amount of power. They had to work very hard (or murder many people) to reach that stage. It is still possible, but you may have to work together with a team (not necessarily a meister), at least initially, to achieve it.
+ For one of the best examples, look at Ryoki’s Weapon Ability. I really would like the player's permission to use it.
+ Meisters don’t require a guide; they choose from a list or create their own power on a case-by-case basis (which then gets added to the evolving list).
+ Examples were planned from the beginning and are forthcoming. They will go on a separate page, but be linked to on the application.

I hope these help.

I'm really glad to see that acceptance is so high! But there's really no way for people looking at the app to know what unless you tell them. The app may not BE harder, but it looks it and sounds it. There really needs to be these assurances somewhere attached to the app itself.

The old process following the old app form made things difficult for both the players and the app team because it left a lot of holes that eventually, inevitably led to nitpicking from the app team and constant revisions from the players. This is primarily what the new process is hoping to get rid of by allowing the team to focus on the content of these sections, allowing for flexibility due to the new guidelines put up, without having to ask for revisions on minor things again and again. If you look at the apps before, many of the revisions for this section had been for minor revisions, which we are hoping to do away with. If a section doesn't display a decent grasp of a character's personality, weaknesses, or abilities, it's more likely that the app is inherently problematic and should be rejected as not meeting the standards of the game. We are not going to be accepting revisions for the character information section because of this. Please remember that we are still going to do revisions for the rest of the sections.

Yes, we'll try to make it easier on the beta-readers by putting up samples or material to help them with beta-reading. We should have it up soon, hopefully before the month ends, but if not, definitely within November. But in general and so you know, we're really only asking for the core information that every game wants to see in their apps -- information on motivation, focus, quirks, personality -- things that show us that the player has a good grasp of the character.

We understand where the concern for the beta-readers are coming from, but beta-readers are there to help the applicants and are optional -- they don't have to help if they don't want to, and applicants are fortunate to have them. We can put this somewhere on the reserves page if that makes you more comfortable, but it would be a pretty brazen applicant to have your 'balls busted' for offering your help when you're certainly not required to.

No, it's okay. Communication is one of those very human things to get cross-wired about.

I agree with you--the logic behind the idea that a scary application will only attract people who will end up staying once the process is completed is flawed. I don't believe it will deter or promote committed players either way, as there are too many factors involved to really predict what creates a player that eventually ends up staying in SC. You are correct in finding issue with that faulty assumption.

How does the app form look harder, exactly? Is it only because of the no revisions clause? We'd appreciate it if you could elaborate on this, because part of the change was to make the app form less redundant, have less tl;dr instructions, and to have less rules imposed on it.

Especially when it's text only. @_@ It's like.. what, 80% of all communication is lost when it's just text?

The thing is, I am already hearing from people that it is discouraging. There are now at least two people who were seriously considering the game who have now said that they won't be. While I have no way of knowing if these people would have stuck it out long haul, I know them to be very dedictated in the games they are currenly in. It really concerns me as new characters and players are a very critical part of the momentum that keeps an RP going and I really hope that something like this that has the very real potential to damage that momentum can be adjusted so that it won't.

Juu already gave permission! But I went on vacation before I got the email!

-- Yukeh

Are they aware that it is just the one portion of the application that is not up for revision? I've seen more problems arise from the other sections because of how strange they are to new players, but those sections all allow for revisions. In any event, I'll be working on the clarifying the guidelines for that section so that everybody--current players, new players, and application readers, will know what is expected. When we're all on the same page, as is intended, this will all become much less scary.

This is Yukeh. Sorry if I don't change accounts, but LJ login seems to have taking a dive since I went and came back from vacation (two hours ago!). I'm speaking as part of the app team, hence the distinction.

Part of the purpose of this post is to inform the players that we are changing the way we are judging this single section in the application -- basically, the character information section. By eliminating the need for minor revisions since the app team will only have to look at content, we make the process easier on both the app team and the applicants -- the latter because it means they need to get less emails to fix this and that, less hassle, less pain, less waiting, and less being affronted by getting revision requests at all.

I'm very sorry you feel that way, too, but to be quite honest, if we only wanted things to be easier for us, we would have just implemented this system without telling anyone, ignored the idea of the beta-reader, and just passed it off as the app getting stricter. The application isn't any harder or even any stricter; it just allows us to wean out the apps that really don't pass game standards (often the incredibly last minute apps, too) while making the cycle of both passing or failing characters faster. If the apps doesn't meet the basic requirements of what shows their grasp of their character, the app will be rejected, plain and simple. We'll be releasing a guide/checklist on what makes the character information section acceptable for the app team and the mods, so we hope that helps in the future.

The no revisions clause is all of it, to be honest. Revisions are always part of apping and allow for small mistakes to be corrected and misunderstands to be worked out. Seeing that there is no chance to fix those mistakes, especially with the long window before you can app again is a huge deterrence and adds an addition level of anxiety and stress to the process. Even if you say here that small things will be over looked, in most app processes they aren't. Unless the person looking at that app has the assurance that the usual and frequent revision calls won't cause them to be rejected, they're going to assume it's business as usual, just with no chance to tailor what they've written to expectations they weren't aware of because there's always something that gets missed or misunderstood.

And personally, I'd rather have the longer instructions as a general thing. I'm hoping the guidelines you guys are putting together will replace them because it can be very hard sometimes to figure out how sections are to be filled out, like how the strengths and weakness sections always are very hard since half the time they're redundant and tend to be just lists (thank you for making that optional, BTW. BIG improvement!) This goes double for the no 2nd chance addition.

The guidelines have changed, and that's why the reviewing process itself is changing. Given the guidelines provided (and will be provided), it's unlikely for an app to be truly that awful as to be rejected unless the app is really poor or the instructions and guidelines were ignored entirely.

We'll note the suggestion on emphasis, thank you.

Honestly, any section being a one chance only is pretty terrifying, not gonna lie. As said in another section here, I had one app come up for revisions in another game because the mod team felt something I had included wasn't true, and I just gave them the canon evidence for it and it was fine. If there had been a no revisions policy there, he'd never have gotten in. Unless the app team are masters of all canons, which they can't possibly be expected to be, there will almost always be something like that or similar that pops up.

Rejection is a crushing thing and pretty horrible to deal with when you really want to be a part of something. The chance that it could happen without any chance to fix something is enough to make people not want to deal with that possibility. Especially if you've had encounters with revision requests before! And with emailed/hidden apps, you're sailing blind to start with because you don't know how often revisions are asked for/rejections are handed out or what's often asked for to try and avoid those pitfalls before hand.

Yeah, I have to agree with what Bakura-mun here said. Especially as someone here who already had an app rejected before, when the revisions that the app team wanted that first time weren't even completely explained and made everyone who looked at my app pretty much go "Wait... what?"

Saying outright that you would not allow revisions on the character information section and personality really sounds elitist, and if it had gone up after that first app rejection, I probably wouldn't have convinced myself to try apping again and wouldn't be here now.

Aaah, I get what you're saying now. I understand your point about making the change in the review process clearer in the app, and we'll try to make changes in the app to reflect this concern.

The strengths and weaknesses sections were already just lists before this change. That part did not change at all, except for the guideline we added here to make the instructions clearer.

Mildly OT and might help clarify this discussion: You're grouping clarification and revisions together when this is usually not considered the same thing. If we wanted to clarify something, we'd ask the player about it, not reject them or ask for revisions. Clarifications are not changing in the new system and will still be there as part of normal operations.

Hello, thanks for the comment!

We agree that apps have different reasons for being rejected, and what we didn't go into detail here is that we are also changing the review process in the app team to compliment the change in the app process itself. In the new system, getting rejected is not actually easy -- if the character information shows a good grasp of the character, we will accept it even if there are some minor nitpicks that the app team might quibble over. Most plot-heavy games require that players know their character well enough to state their motivations, strengths, focus, weaknesses, etc -- the app team doesn't require an A+ essay on a character, and we only want to see this core in place for that section.

As for the question on detail -- we are planning on putting up a guideline for beta-readers for what to look for in an app that applicants might benefit from, as well as sample applications that we have accepted in the past. Hopefully, this will address most of your concerns.

Oh! This I did not know. Helpful to know.

Can that be mentioned somewhere in an app FAQ somewhere too? Since I didn't know that either.

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