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soul_ooc2011-10-04 09:15 am
sayatakagi.livejournal.com) wrote in soul_ooc2011-10-04 09:15 am
Idk how to call this post
Hi SC <3. Okay I’ve something coming up so this is a heads up of the sorts? (also some need ideas?)
Despite her attitude, Saya is currently suffering from Posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD): a severe anxiety disorder that can develop after exposure to any psychological trauma that overwhelmed the individual's ability to cope. If you want to know WHY, I can tell you in detail, but her canon is basically about Zombie Apocalypse happening in a normal non magical non fantasy non superhero non supernatural world.
Her symptoms are associated with experiencing the original trauma through nightmares which leads to difficulty falling or staying asleep and hypervigilance. She sleeps with a bat close to her, she stays awake, reading countless books until she finally is too tired to be awake, or just passes out from lack of sleep. Overall, when she is alone, she feels the sensation of panic growing inside her, and that’s why she goes to morning practice and recently asked to go to school (though she does like school, really). But when with others, she is just fine and doesn’t seem traumatized at all.
She has triggers. But it’s a bit different from most triggers. Sound of scrapping the walls, smell of rotten flesh, dead bodies, as you can see these triggers aren’t exactly easy to bring out to her and make her panic. She is still very tense to strange and sudden noises, though.
She hasn’t been sleeping properly for a month and half; her insomnia is nearly permanent and only allows her to sleep one-two hours at each time, and like I said she passes out for example, when she is taking a bath or watching tv or she’s reading. Small things would be noticeable to those who are close to her but SHE HAS NO ONE CLOSE TO HER BUT SENDO. Lol. It’s so sad.
However, for those who train with her will notice a decrease of her strength, ability to concentrate and ability to do proper exercises. Her focus is off too, and she is becoming slower, instead of faster to react, like it was supposed to happen if you are working out everyday.
Saya isn’t obvious. While she doesn’t mind talking about her world, she doesn’t go around explaining it. She doesn’t want kind words and she doesn’t want pity. Nor she wants others to understand what she’s lived because no one will actually understand it.
So. How do I exactly approach a theme like PTSD without making my character look like an attention whore? I don’t even know. I never had PTSD, all I know is what I’ve been reading about it. How am I going to make it obvious that Saya IS NOT OKAY, without having Saya making it obvious?
I was given the idea to start with a simple network post about help in order to sleep. Which is not ooc for Saya to ask and does sound good? And this is why I’m posting this. It’s basically a heads up for that upcoming post, why it was posted, where you can take it, and it’s also for if anyone has any idea on how I can approach this whole deal, help to develop it and to work it (because i'd love you forever).
Despite her attitude, Saya is currently suffering from Posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD): a severe anxiety disorder that can develop after exposure to any psychological trauma that overwhelmed the individual's ability to cope. If you want to know WHY, I can tell you in detail, but her canon is basically about Zombie Apocalypse happening in a normal non magical non fantasy non superhero non supernatural world.
Her symptoms are associated with experiencing the original trauma through nightmares which leads to difficulty falling or staying asleep and hypervigilance. She sleeps with a bat close to her, she stays awake, reading countless books until she finally is too tired to be awake, or just passes out from lack of sleep. Overall, when she is alone, she feels the sensation of panic growing inside her, and that’s why she goes to morning practice and recently asked to go to school (though she does like school, really). But when with others, she is just fine and doesn’t seem traumatized at all.
She has triggers. But it’s a bit different from most triggers. Sound of scrapping the walls, smell of rotten flesh, dead bodies, as you can see these triggers aren’t exactly easy to bring out to her and make her panic. She is still very tense to strange and sudden noises, though.
She hasn’t been sleeping properly for a month and half; her insomnia is nearly permanent and only allows her to sleep one-two hours at each time, and like I said she passes out for example, when she is taking a bath or watching tv or she’s reading. Small things would be noticeable to those who are close to her but SHE HAS NO ONE CLOSE TO HER BUT SENDO. Lol. It’s so sad.
However, for those who train with her will notice a decrease of her strength, ability to concentrate and ability to do proper exercises. Her focus is off too, and she is becoming slower, instead of faster to react, like it was supposed to happen if you are working out everyday.
Saya isn’t obvious. While she doesn’t mind talking about her world, she doesn’t go around explaining it. She doesn’t want kind words and she doesn’t want pity. Nor she wants others to understand what she’s lived because no one will actually understand it.
So. How do I exactly approach a theme like PTSD without making my character look like an attention whore? I don’t even know. I never had PTSD, all I know is what I’ve been reading about it. How am I going to make it obvious that Saya IS NOT OKAY, without having Saya making it obvious?
I was given the idea to start with a simple network post about help in order to sleep. Which is not ooc for Saya to ask and does sound good? And this is why I’m posting this. It’s basically a heads up for that upcoming post, why it was posted, where you can take it, and it’s also for if anyone has any idea on how I can approach this whole deal, help to develop it and to work it (because i'd love you forever).
Suddenly I feel my psych degree was useful for something.
I said 'care' because Jade has seen enough people of that kind to write textbooks on it but his empathy is still close to zero so he doesn't count.Even though she doesn't have much close CR, you could also enlist the help of people that at least interacted with her more than once.As for developing it, if you're approaching this as the beginning point where her symptoms have manifested as something slightly more apparent, you could introduce a plot point where it gets worse due to her refusal to make things apparent and also continue to think that no one understands. Although she herself will not be making it obvious, people on such severe sleep deprivation will eventually begin to have hallucinations and you can relate that back to her triggers to finally get it out in the open that she has PTSD without well, seeming like you're looking for attention.
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/nodnod I was actually thinking of that too. I don't really mind if characters pick up something is wrong with Saya, that is actually the point. Saya asking for help to sleep on the network is indeed a bit off considering her personality, so even those who aren't close to her would notice, and anyone is free to notice c:
The hallucinations do sound interesting, actually. I read that PTSD can provoke them too, at times. I just am not sure how I can actually make her hallucinate without making it over the top or, you know, weird. Nor if she should realize she is hallucinating; despite everything she is a extremely intelligent and she'd know there are no zombies right now and it's not real - sure it'd provoke her panic, but how incoherent should I make her, I have no idea.
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And this is true too, but certain characters still do better in these situations.
On hallucinations, it depends on how you would want to play it out! For instance, Saya could show up knowing she's hallucinating and yet still be troubled because things weren't like this before or it may get so bad that she's basically trapped in the hallucination, as if she were actually back in that same situation from before.
The latter is less related to triggers and more related to severe sleep deprivation as lack of sleep essentially removes the ability to differentiate between fantasy and reality, no matter how intelligent Saya is. I will agree though that the latter is more difficult to pull off realistically because Saya is smart and relatively well-grounded, and she probably would not sound too incoherent even then.
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If the hallucinations should be sleep deprived or due to ptsd, is still something I've to think of. Since she will still be coherent, possibly it'll be ptsd related (also makes it easier since sleep deprivation hallucinations sound a bit hard to pull off and also difficult for her to realize them).
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But Arinori above had great suggestions! There's also the normal falling down on their face in the middle of strenuous activity, which seems to be more normal for sleep deprived people than we think. That, and sleep-deprivation does make a person very sickly, so if she makes frequent trips to the clinic for things, that would make it more known to a more specific group of people. (She should try sleeping in the clinic, it has Calming Wavelength and People Who Need The Calming Wavelength, and also moaning patients.) Aaa, I wish we had a Sid...
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The clinic sounds also a pretty good idea, i had forgotten about it. I'd have to contact the clinic people for this, though. Or make her directly ask about the Calming Wavelength there.
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We just had a long arm of events in the city, so we're focusing on the outside for now, but we might have madness in the city again in the not that far off future!
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I understand if you want to build up to it, though!
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I'd love to do that sort of thing, but it's hard when she doesn't really have many people to get along with.
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I've been wondering about this for Yako too, since I feel that she's definitely a prime candidate for at the very least a minor case of PTSD. I've tried to slip in some major hints that something's wrong--trouble sleeping, a reluctant use of medecine to stay at least somewhat rested, etc--but nothing too obvious because Yako has been studying psychology enough to 'correct' what symptoms she can. Her hatred of being a burden has only strengthened with this episode.
It might be interesting to have them interact and kind of figure each other out? In a 'takes one to know one' sort of way, especially since Yako is good at picking up subtle hints and worrying behaviors.
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aaaannnd this could be be a great opportunity for those characters who are in similar situations to come forward? because I know this issue is hard to manage and hard to even introduce it to the game c:
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Supposedly, people believe they are performing as well or better than normal when they are somewhat sleep deprived, but in fact they are doing worse. So it would be perfectly plausible for her to not realize she is not actually keeping up with things that she normally keeps up with (e.g., not realizing she's messing up at training more than usual, getting surprised that she did poorly on a test she thought she did well on, etc.)
Also, remember that hallucinations aren't limited to visual ones. They can be sound, smell, or sensory. I think I heard somewhere that the feeling of itchy or creepy-crawly insects all over the body isn't uncommon.
Lastly! Takuto has very little CR with her, but I'd love to have more~ He's a kind of perceptive kid, too, so I might have him reply to her sleepless post.
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I've an issue though. We know that no sleep = really bad for your body. A number one rule of how to survive a zombie apocalypse is "get nourishment and sleep" and Saya knows she hasn't been sleeping at all. Considering that her room and the way she lives is basically "what if a Z day happens in Death City", would the sleepless factor still worry her even if she doesn't noticing it's affecting her body? MAYBE NOT IDK?
/nodnod I'll be researching more about hallucinations. I'd prefer them to be ptsd related than sleep deprived related, mostly because I'd prefer to keep her coherent enough - and really, I don't know enough about sleep deprivation (not that i know much about ptsd, but I've been researching about it). I'm currently reading articles about ptsd related hallucinations and they said some people are aware they are hallucinating.
Oh I'd love to have more CR with Takuto~
Is he going to school (well, i'm guessing it's vacation time right now, so they don't have school) or does he go to the library often and such?
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I think she'd still be worried if she knows she's not sleeping. Even if she thinks she's doing well enough given the circumstances, worrying is still a thing she'd probably do.
I don't know er... anything much about ptsd, and I've basically told you all I know about sleep deprivation, but it makes sense that people can be aware of certain hallucinations. Logically, it would seem that if the senses aren't matching up (e.g. hallucinating via touch but not seeing anything) then a person would know they are hallucinating. (Knowing she's hallucinating might er... exacerbate the symptoms, though? I feel like it would certainly add to her stress.....)
Er. Takuto's not much for hitting the books, and since he's working and training, I haven't had him at school. Buuuuut, he really is a loves school
friendskind of guy so I've kinda been meaning to get him out there. He'd go to the library if he were meeting Saya there, lol.no subject
ohh it's fine, I was just asking about Takuto since i'd like to have more cr between him and Saya c: we ought to do something in the future!
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gougedcoaxed out of them. You might want to take that approach -- just talking about that, rather than the reason behind it. At least to start. Something subtle like "I've been having trouble sleeping," which doesn't necessarily imply that it's (semi-)permanent or has a real reason behind it? Idk.2. Zatanna is someone who takes great pride in noticing the most subtle nuances. She's extremely observant and while she may not be able to pin her down as PTSD, she could easily take note of signs of fatigue or a swerve in her step, as slight as it may be. They've spoken before and while she's in Lucerne, I certainly don't mind creating more CR and lending you a hand up'n hurr. :)
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I sort of get a floating sensation. Pleasantly dizzy. Kind of like I'm hovering, especially when I close my eyes. When I do things it's because I want to, need to, or I realize I won't be able to sleep so I might as well do it. I don't doubt there are people who don't realize that they're sleep deprived (hours tend to fly on by and it feels like 48 hours ago was ten minutes ago), but the people I know tend not to... you know, get like that?
I don't hallucinate, really, either, and neither do people I talk to. This doesn't mean people don't hallucinate, but I think it's not nearly as vivid as people might assume and that sort of... sensationalizes it. When I do hallucinate, it isn't so much memorable as it is believable, if that makes sense? I've found that myself and a close friend will kind of... stare. We get frustrated easily because it's... sort of like our brains are on overhaul. They aren't functioning properly due to lack of sleep (and sometimes eating; like having two meals in 24 hours that are very oddly placed). I'll stare at a lamp for five minutes trying to figure out if it's on or off, then realize it's on. Then wonder why it mattered (I was going to read/do something/etc.). Things become harder to comprehend. Words don't necessarily come as easily. I once tried to tell my brother that he needed to cut the grass and for about fifteen minutes substituted the word grass with THAT THING OUT FRONT THAT IS GREEN!!! FIX IT!!
I don't frequent forums anymore, but I think I might have a few good ones still bookmarked. I'll forward them here, if I can find them.
TL;DR, HI. I'M LUCY AND I'M A MESS.
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My research didn't extend as far as sleep deprivation, so I admit I don't know nearly enough about the subject. I had a question above so I guess I'll ask you as well?
We know that no sleep = really bad for your body, so does Saya. A number one rule of how to survive a zombie apocalypse is "get nourishment and sleep" and Saya knows she hasn't been sleeping at all (she counts the hours). Considering that her room and the way she lives is basically "what if a Z day happens in Death City", wouldn't the sleepless factor still worry her even if she doesn't noticing it's affecting her body?
I feel bad to be bothering you about this hdsbghdjbjhf i'm sorry, but basically, looking at the watch and say "it's 6pm, I haven't slept for 24 hours" would they realize that is bad and something is wrong?
Admittedly, Saya never had insomnia before, only when she arrived to Death city and - oh look, no more zombies and things to worry me 24/7, now I got time to think about my life choices, my dead parents and remember how zombies pull out guts from the living.
Annd for hallucinations, i was thinking of making them ptsd related exactly because... of what you just said on your note. I know some people hallucinate when sleep deprived, but I don't know how normal that is and how vivid or coherent are those kinds of hallucinations. PTSD, however, are easier (since I read about it) and people may even realize they are hallucinating, which would be perfect in Saya's situation.
AS FOR ZATANNA. YES. They spoke before and Saya asked about zombies. If she wants to notice, for example, Saya stopped using "VIDEO" function in the communicator and now only uses "AUDIO" (unless I get distracted >_>). But other things aren't noticeable through communications. For example, Saya used to spend her day at the library and now... she rarely goes there. Those are things close people would notice, so I don't think Zatanna would?
Though, she can pick up something is definitively wrong when Saya posts, seriously XD that is the point <3
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I think that if the sleeplessness was initially caused by PTSD (re: Z Day) that she'd probably keep on the same way she is -- remain vigilant. It could happen again, even if you're told time and time and time again that it wouldn't. She'd have to be lulled into a sense of security over time and maybe she could eventually train her body to stop being completely on guard, but it would definitely have to be coupled with therapy and reassurance from the people around her. (Zatanna is actually one of the few superheroes who does see a therapist, too! So that could help!)
Nah, don't worry about it. If I hadn't wanted to shove my input in here, I wouldn't have. But yeah... Idk. I think that... in her case, she might not completely realize it? Like, it sort of becomes a... oh. I haven't slept. But I can't do anything about it. STARES INTO THE DISTANCE. And at a certain point, I can become frustrated to tears and I'll do whatever it takes to sleep -- for me? Like, sleep aids? They will hit me really, really hard. To the extent I'll sleep at least 10 hours. So I use them only when I'm really desperate because I'm always afraid I might not wake up. Though I do know other people who aren't affected by them at all. I think it really depends on how on edge you are -- and with PTSD/anxiety it can almost negate itself.
I imagine she probably didn't quite realize she had insomnia because it was to the point of exhaustion. It isn't like our lives OH SCHOOL/WORK/ETC. It's flat-out about survival. And I think based on having all these people around her, training, the Network, etc. she might begin to realize how time is moving because she has a way to properly judge time. And it might become an issue or it might not. I think it would be interesting to play it out like it's normal for her, like it doesn't necessarily bother her until maybe she misses this or that or falls asleep on accident in public or something? Idk. Obviously, it's also up to interpretation!
RE: hallucinations, I think part of it has to do with a person's experiences. Just like dreams, they can manifest themselves in strange ways. I tend to have night terrors more than anything and when I do, it's almost always the same thing: dark things dripping out of the ceiling. Sort of like spiders. And shadowy figures hovering over my bed. I have more auditory/scent hallucinations more than visual, though. And as I stated about like... lamps. Or forgetting where I put something and staring at it as I wonder where it is.
I think mostly, what you'd do best working with, would be time. Especially for someone that sleeps in two hour increments, it can be hard to really adjust to your surroundings and the lives of people around you. With it being winter, it's also darker. That would probably make it even more disorienting.
I could notice that! :) Like, I've made mental notes that Zatanna's choice of post is video and when she does anything else, it's usually for a reason. But yeah, she's in Lucerne, but she should be back soon. If you'd like, we could handwave some past CR to make this a little easier? I'd be happy to jump right into stuff with you. :3
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And yes, I don't see Saya ever calming down with her fear of Zombies suddenly crawling all over the place. She sleeps (...tries to sleep) with a bat close to her bed and no one would ever be able to tell her not to do so because "it happened once, it can happen before". She is constantly on alert.
And in her canon, no one so far had insomnia or anything like this mostly because of what you've said: exhaustion. they run for the whole day, and then basically pray to god to be able to rest because they are exhausted. In death City that no longer happens, so I felt it'd be ooc if I just assumed "OH NO, SHE IS FINE. SAYA IS A STRONG GIRL. PFF, ZOMBIES? WHY WOULD THAT EVEN BOTHER". yeah, right, not happening.
as for the time passing becoming an issue, i think I could work that out a bit. Would missing things that happened be considered realistic? For example, missing the whole Gamzee going batshit event. or like "the day just went by WHAT EXACTLY DID I DO DURING THE DAY I HAVE NO IDEA"?
Oh and the sleeping hours. What I meant was not about sleeping only 2 hours during the whole day, but more like sleeping 2 hours, wake up and stay awake for like 5, then pass out for another hour, to wake up again and stay awake for yet another 5. basically, she can't sleep for 7 straight hours like others normally do; she falls asleep/passes out from exhaustion several times during the day, but never over two hours. She also doesn't have a "sleeping time"; like some people go to bed at 1am, yeah, her time may be at 1am, at 5 am, at 9am, depends on the day and how terrible her thoughts were.
Does this even make sense?
My biggest difficulty with this is to balance what Saya can perceive and what she can't. That's why i'm being so picky and all orz I'm trying to reach the whole subject with the best angle I can without assuming things that don't fit/aren't true.
When will Zatanna be back? And handwaving past CR is fine too, not an issue with me c:
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I get hallucinations actually pretty frequently and my earliest recorded one was around 3 years old. I get the crawling thing, and I guess when I was a child I actually thought there were bugs all over me. I don't remember this event or if I could actually see them. I often see a "fuzz" or static covering my vision. Other than that most of my hallucinations are olfactory and auditory. Someone calling my name or a misbelonging smell. Often it will make me nauseous.
Usually the first day I haven't slept or have slept very little I feel more chipper and like I do in fact perform better than on other days. I'm awake and upbeat and more willing to participate in work or chores. Idk idk like I said I can elaborate on any of this if need be. I can't sleep tonight LOL SURPRISE so feel free to IM me (n0tJesus).
I would like to reiterate that it is EXTREMELY difficult to talk about. And people usually do the pity thing or think you're exaggerating. Neither of which is very pleasant. I'm glad that you're going about this in a way that's sensitive to people that really have been through these things. Anyway I'm kind of dumb right now so I'll end it here but yes. Questions. I don't mind answering them.
ON A DIFFERENT NOTE Spike is more perceptive than he seems and tends to gravitate towards younger girls/women. He has an urge to protect and take care of them. And since he has a little experience with zombies he will be unsurprised and unpitying if ever they were close enough for him to get that information. Food for thought I guess lmao.
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BEING ALL HLEPUFL AND ALL
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being hlepufl
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Like I've said above, I'm thinking of making the hallucinations ptsd related instead of sleep deprivation related; mostly because I've made research on the subject and also because some people may understand they are hallucinating.
And yeah. Saya will have the problem that she will believe everyone is pretty much pitying her and she doesn't want that. She doesn't want to be seen as weak, specially because she believes she is very strong. I'll approach the subject with "I've been having trouble sleeping", like Lucy suggested. I don't think she'd get into details for how long, and such.
Would she confine to a friend, though? I know Sendo noticed by now Saya isn't right and he'll be asking stuff. Would it be okay to speak to a close friend, or she'd still deny it?
Ohh Spike~ He is more than welcome to try to help/give input/ANYTHING <: this post is for brainstorming and also to let others know where they can go once I get the network post up.
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As for "being more PTSD related"? Insomnia is often a side-effect of PTSD and therefor the hallucinations would most likely be related in some way to those events as it was. The sleepless mind calls on those things most traumatic and easiest to conjure. I often see/smell/hear bizarre things that are very horrific so she could see the same thing. But it's not some big thing and you definitely know you're doing it. It's likd quick flashes or images when you close your eyes or there's a silence? It's a bit hard to explain.
But she would most likely see something zombie-related. Something she saw happen, happened to her or might have but never did could be visual flashes. But more likely would be a strange sound she heard right before an attack or a smell she associates with them. Obviously as you said rotting flesh would be something. In this way she could actually trigger herself through that olfactory hallucination.
I hope this is making sense and yes feel free to IM me when you get home C: Spike will definitely be all over this post.
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If Saya suddenly started hearing zombies crawling in her walls, the articles I read about ptsd did say it'd be possible for her to realize "that's not real, they are not here" (thought it also said, no matter how you acknowledged it's not real, it depends on a person if they panic or not). It's also said that people "get used to the hallucinations faster than they get used to the anti-psychotic drugs used to eliminate them" (this was said by a Vietnam Veteran in a website I found.), hence why this sort of hallucination seems is different from those hallucinations when someone is sleep deprived (I am compared to what you and Lucy told me, i may be wrong. If I am, please correct me). AKA, while ptsd hallucinations are "cured" with anti-psychotic drugs or by "getting used to them", I suppose sleep deprivation hallucinations are "cured" with sleep?
I'm not excluding the effects of insomnia. I'm currently reading about the effects of sleep deprivation on cognitive performance, and I'll be using what you and Lucy told me as guidelines for that matter c:
AM I EVEN MAKING ANY SENSE?
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